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Posted by Glenn on August 21, 2001 at 17:38:22:

In Reply to: Wake-Up...Glen posted by Jim Hoffmann on August 21, 2001 at 15:44:20:

"Glen are you an instructor? "

No, I am not an instructor. I believe I stated that in the previous post. Currently I'm rescue and will look at DM in the next year or so.

"They are able to do this type of class
because PADI has no hourly standards for lectures or pool work only the 80mins. for the
OW dives. "

But my initial point was that there is still no 80 minute certification--excluding resort certification. They still need to study the materials and they still need to spend confined water sessions with the instructor.

Here's the thing though. Why should PADI or any agency for that matter be the one to require minimum instruction time. Instructors need to shoulder some responsibility. It's in their title, Instructor. They instruct, they teach, they pass knowledge on to their trainees. If a student can perform skills without question of doubt and displays no signs that would clue the instructor in to the need for remedial training, then why shouldn't the student be passed? But the other issue is the students must take responsibility as well. If they feel they need remedial training then they need to inform the instructor. It's getting real upsetting that people no longer want to accept responsibility for their own stupidity and/or shortcomings.

"If you are an instructor you know that training a self-reliant diver take time."

You don't have to be an instructor to know that. All you need is a little common sense. Unfortuanately, it aint that common. Students are told to "Dive within your abilities."

"8yrs olds are still little children, for that matter so are 10 yr. olds, they are both going
U/W on Scuba(this is child endangerment to me)"

I'll agree that 10 year olds are still little children. Some are sharp as tacks and some are dumb as a stump. Most that I have seen are the latter. I'm sure that there are a few 10 y/o kids who could nail the math for understanding pressures at depth and work the tables. But as I said, most that I have met when you give them the example of taking a ballon under water they just giggle and laugh and think of nothing but floating colorful balloons the rest of the class. This is where the parents must step in and take an active role in deciding if their kids are capable of performing the tasks. Oh wait, in this day and age parents want little to do with parenting and the responsibility they have. Now I can see how it may be irresponsible of parents to simply take what some corporate agency says as gospel. This is the day and age where people are such frickin' idiots they need warnings on plastic bags that the plastic bags are not toys.

As far as I am aware, however, it wasn't PADI that came out and said 10 year olds are clear to dive. Some other outside research agency said that physically they could dive. They never made claims to mental ability. The parents and the instructor need to step in and evaluate the kids mental ability.

But as far as the 8-10 y/o kids go, SSI Rangers or PADI Seals is just a play activity for them. Yes they do need proper supervision as with any child around a pool. Sure they can get hurt, but I think they are a lot less likely to get hurt using Scuba gear to pick rings up off the bottom of the pool than running around on a wet deck chasing each other.

I've been looking into the Ranger/Seal programs for a couple 10 y/o kids for a family friend. In fact their only interest in scuba at this time is for in the pool. While the cerification agencies say 10 is old enough for a junior certification, these kids aint bright enough to handle the course material.

Bottom line is, people need to take responsibility for their own actions. If someone were to take an online scuba course and showup to Al & Ed's Dive Certs for their checkout dive, they need to understand their skills and abilities are only as good as their training. It is no more the agencies' fault if these people get hurt/killed than it would be Spalding's fault if someone got hit by lighting playing golf during a thunderstorm. Mandating that there be 20 hours of classroom time won't do anybody any good if the student doesn't pay any attention during class.


BTW: has anybody asked PADI why they do not require a minimum number of instruction hours?

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