Posted by seahunt on December 06, 2001 at 22:07:50:
In Reply to: Re: Oh Really... posted by Kendall Raine on December 05, 2001 at 13:33:30:
This is a strange discussion to be in...
OK, may I put a quote from my post to Maddiver...
>If you don't think California diving is extremely
>demanding, pray tell me a few places that are as
>tough that get many divers.
Please notice the qualification "get many divers".
Before going further, I'll mention that part of the problem are the
terms used. I said "sport divers" which I use to mean fairly
non-technical diving, but admittedly there is some ambiguity available
there.
Also, for reference, the difficulties I mentioned for California
divers, hunters in particular are:
a. Cold in particular. That is important enough that it pretty much
rules out any warm water comparisson, which you don't mention in
your list anyway. I've been diving some elsewhere in warm water and
that's just a joke. It does not foster many skilled or tough
divers.
b. Number of tanks per day. California divers and hunters in
particular frequently do up to 7 tanks in a day and sometimes
more. I have never heard of anyone (especially in non-tropical
waters), besides commercial divers at the Mosquito Coast, doing
anything like that. I dare say that that number might be done on
some live aboards, but I expect it is discouraged and it is
certinly not in cold water and that is not even talking about year
round divers.
c. Also, the reason I mention the hunters in particular is that a
primary strategy of the bug and halibut hunters is to swim fast. I
have heard of no other diving activity where the diver swims fast
for the entire dive. Even the clawed lobster hunters don't swim
fast. generally, exertion while diving is discouraged.
d. Shore entries can be a particular challenge and hazard, but are
not near as common elsewhere as in CA.
e. Long trips, rough oceans, poor vis, kelp, long swims... Well
those are below...
Now, may I quote your post..
>Dive any old way you want. I don't care. Saying California
>lobster diving is some of the toughest in the world is just
>ridiculous. You asked for examples:
>1. Deep Northeast wreck diving
It's cold. It's rough. That's tough, but it's gonna be a dry suit
anyway and the worst cold would be during deco, which is pretty
relaxed. How many tanks a day do they do at what beaches?
A CA diver might have to adapt some.
>2. Diving in the Pacific Northwest
A couple tanks a day of dry suit diving between tides, though I
bet the diving gets interesting at Mt. Storm. People report diving
there on RSD, but the reports are very thin.
I doubt a CA hunter would find the diving difficult there.
>3. English Channel -
Almost no reports of local diving there on RSD, though Den on DL
has reported on the popularity of wreck diving. I know that they
dive for bugs on the wrecks. I doubt it's much worse than CA
diving and I've never herd that the divers push it hard. I used
to check out a British dive BBS because the diving there and in
Ireland sounded similr to CA, but rather boring from reports...
Kelp, poor vis, rough boat rides and rocks. Nothing special.
I have some of Den's great reports on my site. Talk about a
tough girl.
I doubt a CA hunter would find the diving difficult there.
>4. Deep off the Virginia, Carolina Capes -
Now that is some open diving, but deep does no make tough. Do they
like to do many tanks there or swim fast.
A CA diver might have to adapt some.
>5. St Laurance seaway
I got a great report about diving there. Sounds like some neet
diving with challenging currents.
A CA diver might need a dry suit and a local guide for safety,
but I suspect a CA hunter could handle it ok.
>6. Caves. Take your pick.
I don't call that sport diving strictly, but... I'm a fan of Ron
Bear... Most of it sounds tough enough, perheps tougher to get to
than most of CA, but mostly it sounds like one long dive a day
with big doubles or 2 short ones. It sounds challenging, but more
skill demanding than toughness.
I suspect a CA hunter would need to learn technique for that far
more than fortitude..
>7. Alaska
Well, ya got that one all right, but there isn't really much of a
dive population there and what I have read about diving there was
mostly in rather protected coves in summer.
I expect a CA hunter would need a drysuit more thn anything else
to dive there.
>8. Anywhere above (or below) the artic (antartic) circles.
There are local sport divers there? I had an offer to research
diver there, but they told me about the elbow claw they would
give me because my hands wouldn't work even in a Uni Suit.
>9. Deep in the Great Lakes
There were some great stories about Superior on the RSD board.
I think one is on my site. Snow on the ground, beautiful trees
and granite cliffs. Long boat trips or rock entries. Not very
rough... usually, though it picks up fast. Sounded like cold,
but easy enough diving.
>10. Anywhere off the coast of Ireland
Kelp, rocks and some life. I didn't hear, but I doubt they dive
in winter much. I also doubt it would be very difficult for a CA
hunter. I look for stories about Ireland diving, because the kelp
diving there sounds similar in ways to here.
>I could go on. There are lots of deep, cold, dark places where
>the weather and sea conditions are regularly worse, and more
>volatile, than here. Really, Mike. Stop the chest pounding.
>Stick to what you know and stop comparing that to things about
>which you don't. You're sounding like someone else.
Uggh. Until this post I have avoided comparing CA diving to
elsewhere, cuz I don't much care. I can't figure out why you
care how I reply to insults. There are lots of tough places to
dive, but I really don't care or compare. There are tough places
to dive, but I haven't heard of anywhere where the diving is done
as aggressively as the hunters in CA do.
Now on more point from your last post... ah and examining it,
maybe I see...
>You seem to think the distinction an important one since the
>hunter motif runs through all your posts in this thread. It
>struck me in context as chest pounding. What am I missing?
Ah... Not chest pounding, leg beating. Swim like crazy and get
all the bottom time you can.
I was going to point out that your own diving resume is suggestive
of what I was saying. You have done some fairly extreme diving,
which I was going to posit that CA diving keeps you prepared for,
but I noticed your last question and suspect I see a
misunderstanding. What I find the toughest about hunting is the
many tanks and aggressive swimming through all of them, sometimes
in conditions that would be lousy for any other dive activity.
That is the most unique point about CA diving that I think is also
the toughest part.
Diving is tough in CA because it offers divers that want to, some
very tough diving.
Tell you what. If you disagree, fine. I'll tell you up front
you're right cuz this is way beyond anything I care much about.
Enjoy the diving, seahunt