Posted by SLANG on November 16, 2000 at 14:41:27:
In Reply to: FTR, I could care less posted by MHK on November 14, 2000 at 21:36:59:
Mike, I understand the tone of your response. After re-reading my initial post I realize that it came across with a lot more attitude than I intended. That was my fault. However, in an effort to clarify my position, I'll try to respond to your latest:
>"1) first off I could care less what you guys think of me;"
Understood. I feel the same way. Diving for me is not really a "community" thing, it's very personal. And as long as I'm allowed to dive how, where and when I choose, I don't care what others do. Of course, this is one thing we seem to disagree on. You feel the need to impose your diving practices on others. It's strange, from the same starting point, you and I end up with completely opposite views.
>"2) I attempt to provide proven solutions to problems that most of you have not even considered;"
No doubt. You do dives that I will never attempt, and that's exactly my point. For you and your more extreme dives, your philosophies are appropriate and sensible. The thing is, in the last 27 years of diving around here, I have encountered, considered and solved just about all of the problems I am likely to encounter in my diving. Just because I don't do it exactly like you doesn't mean I haven't thought about the consequences of my actions.
>"3) If you don't like the manner with which I provide it then don't read my posts;"
As I have often stated before, I find your posts to be a great source of information and new ideas. I have picked up quite a bit from reading this board. However, as always, it will have to be my decision as to what is, or is not, applicable to my diving. But I will continue to follow your posts.
>"4) If Frank Framer has a problem with how I responded let him deal with it you guys don't need to jump on his self-inflicted bandwagon;"
This really isn't about Frank. This is about holding people accountable for their comments and actions. We have often had rather heated discussions on this board in the past, but I have always felt good about the fact that most of the people that I had come to believe were intelligent sources of diving information, were able to remain civil; often agreeing to passionately disagree. Because of this, I found your comments on the Tech board about Frank personally offensive. I was disappointed that you would bring this type of public animosity to this board. But I didn't say anything. Even when you jumped on Shereen for taking you to task for your comments, I held my tongue. But then you act as if none of this happened and attempt to assume this sanctimonious position of taking the moral high ground when you're questioned; at this point I felt a need to say something.
>"5) As to my libelous statements about Ken Kurtis you need to get Ken's approval before you speak on his behalf because EVERYTHING I posted is true and it was Ken that did it behind my back;"
Actually, since both you and Ken chose to post to a public forum, your comments are open to public speculation, Ken's approval is not necessary. I don't know what actually transpired between you, all I have to go on is what was posted on this board. However, as a relatively unbiased onlooker, I can tell you that based on Ken's public apology to you and your subsequent response (which has since been removed from the board), I would imagine you'll have a hard time taking the "moral high ground" anytime soon on this board.
>"6) Most importantly, do any of you have anything constructive or in the realm of diving to criticize about me and/or my beliefs???????"
Do I have anything critical to say about your diving practices? No. Not one thing. I never have. I certainly wouldn't call them unsafe, or recommend any changes to your philosophies (other than that bothersome DIR need to "convert the world" and an apparent tendency towards elitism). Just accept the possibility that even though the rest of us don't do it exactly like you, we aren't automatically morons or incompetent divers. Just because I may want to do a "deep air" "solo" dive doesn't mean that I'm ignorant of the risks. I just accept them. That is my right. I realize that SHOULD ANYTHING GO WRONG I may have less chance of survival without a buddy to assist (depending on the problem), and I also know that my problem solving capabilities are substantially reduced at extreme depths. For me personally, these risks are acceptable in order to experience the unique serenity of being alone in an ocean. As I've said before, the people that really matter to me accept this risk as an integral part of my life, why should anyone else have any input on it?
>"7) Steve, your notion of a solo, deepa air fatality having NOTHING to do with your diving speaks to your ignorance.. Do you really believe that you can NOT learn from a fact pattern simply because it ahhpens a few 1000's mile away???? Niavitity to the degree that you accuse me of..."
See response to #6. It's not a question of naivety on anyone's part. It's not even about what is the safest way to dive. It's about freedom to choose.
Again, I am in no way being critical of the choices you make when you dive. Just understand that they are not for everyone, and admit that no one other than me should be able to make decisions about my diving, and we have no differences on diving issues. I'm sure you just want everyone to be as safe as possible; but I'm a grown man, let me make that decision for myself. Also, on a personal level, I just want to say I have always gotten the impression that you were a stand-up guy whenever we've met. You do some really good things for the dive community. I just think you've let some of this become too personal. This isn't meant to be a flame, just some observations.
SLANG