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Posted by seahunt on August 20, 2001 at 21:58:36:

In Reply to: Re: DIR defintion posted by MHK on August 20, 2001 at 10:01:00:

I'll give one answer for both of you if I may, though more of it may be
for Mr. Kane, since he has offered such a long winded complaint.

Part of the reason it has taken me a while to respond, aside from being
horribly busy, as usual, is that I was considering taking John up on his
offer. The simplest thing is to just take his offer at face value. I
have the impression that in generel, he teaches good stuff. Unfortuntely,
I concluded that I must decline due to having absolutely no time to
take him up on it. These days, I pretty much must restrict my educational
endevors to what I can read. I can't even get the time for extension
classes these days. Heck, I ain't got time for this. That's for
I wouldn't mind taking the class just out of curiosity, though I suspect
that only a few parts of a fundementals class would be of much interest
since I have well developed most of my diving methodology specialized
for hunting. It's not like I have a lot to learn about buoyancy or some
other more basic subjects. I should probably try to get the recently
mentioned GUE book to see what it says that might be new to me.
I would still like to get some of the details of GUE/DIR deco methods
clarified. Up to now they have been mentioned, but I have been able to
get a few specific points clarified.
In any case, maybe one day, which is OK, cuz at this point I can only
dream of spare time. As I say though, I do appreciate John's offer and
will judge it as a positive, honest offer.
Now lets see what answer is approprite to that long tirade of Mr. Kane's.
.... Dang I need a new keyboard!

>If this is true, then why do you never seem to comprhend the most basic of
>issues that we advance??? I'm not flaming, but all the evidence is to the
Which issues? Minimalism, streamlining or DIR's a holistic approach to a
diving system. Remember, I've read the sites, analyzed them and then read
your ongoing essays. I think in this case I agree with Chris. To you,
don't agree = don't comprehend. You ask why. Can I ask why I can never get
a direct answer out of you? I've said why I don't want things on my arms.
You won't accept the answer. I've said why I like a console. You keep talking
about some huge thing and tons of drag. I mention that when moving fast, I
toss it quite out of the way. You told me it causes more drag than doubles.
I've said why a computer works excellently for my diving. You don't like the
answer. I've stated my question about wings and my desire to test one to
find out. I may get to soon. I've stated that I think solo is better for
hunting or photo and why. You simply ignore me. I don't agree with everything
you say and that's alright with me if not you. The things I am interested in
that you push, I can't get clear answers to. Note that that was my question
in the post to John. 'Would he answer some questions?'
>And despite the fact that you distracted the entire demo, JJ
>went the extra mile to help you understand.. Even after I tried to explain it
>to you, JJ, Mark Lonsdale, Robert Carmichael, John Walker and Terry May tried
>you still didn't get it,
JJ was tired and basically uninterested after the demo. He did tell me I should
do all my diving with NITROX.... Real practical on the west coast. As I mentioned,
NITROX is joke in SD.
You and JW said nothing to me. JW never got within 15 feet of me.
Mark Lonsdale (the older gent that got the AF guy out of the cave, I think)
wanted to tell me he got more women than me... That's all.
Terry, on the other hand, went to a fair amount of effort to explain some things
to me and I did get some idea of what he was saying
SO WHY!!!! Did you ignore all of my follow-up questions I posted the next day???
Go look at the posts of that date. I asked my questions, with my guesses and,
guess what, there was no answer! Recently, some of these answers have started
to appear, but I repeat, why did no one simply say 'depth averaging' before
all that?. Why did you not answer the honest questions I posted after the demo,
a post in which I stated that the DIR folks did have some kind of deco
>You just explained your reason why you won't accept DIR.. You don't like us
>and therefore you think that if you say something enough times that it will
>become true.
No, but on your own you're a jerk enough to turn anybody off to diving.
Aside from that, as I have said, some of your ideas sound good, some don't sound
of any use to me. Still you demand that I swallow the whole packge. You say
that it is not adaptable, which goes against all biological and engineering
principles and certainly against my nature. Further, on some issues important
to me, ie. steel tanks with wetsuit, you don't even agree with John.
As for the rest of that drivage, lets see what I can do...

>the market place is leaving you behind...
Who cares about the market place? Certainly not me or the ocean.
Do you think the market place makes the diver? Let me clear that up for
you. It is the ocean and experience that make the diver. I don't teach and
I rarely buy. The market place I ignore as well as I can. If I want the
marketplce, I'll watch TV. As for charters, the marketplace is mostly the
Yukon and Catalina. Neither place is of interest to me. I go on the
charters that the hard core divers go on. I sure don't frequent
>As for posting a *poor essays* about our methods, I'll say this again.. YOU
Yes, but I don't need to. I am already a good diver. Some of the technical
issues I have asked you about certainly had better not be explained
underwater. Also, if they are so complex, they would be much better taught
with model data rather than live data. That's just how most things are
taught, not by live fire.
>Or is it just near the end of the month so you needed to start up again????
Uh, actully, I think I started it with statement generally supporting DIR,
if not you. Is there a DIR demo soon???

>You've been relying on your computer to do all your work for you for 30
>years and you stopped learning the day you bought it...
Except for the old ScubaPro Bendomatic, there haven't been computers for
much more than say about 17 years or so when the very expensive Edge came
out. Shortly after that the Skinny Dipper (Brick) came out. Computers were
so much better than tables that they created 2 classes of divers. The ones
that could do the last tank and the ones without computers. Figure that I
learned the tables very well, in the 16 years before I got a computer and
can still do them quite well thank you. I've stated before that I like
taking newbies down occasionally. Who do you think does their tables and
gives them an explantion of them? I can not only use them and occasionally
do, just to compare and laugh at the tables, I can also quite effectively
teach them.
This is not to say that your depth averaging method is not superior to how
we were taught to use the tables, but I'd still really like you to answer a
couple of questions about it. How about it. There's question one.
When talking about what I have learned and forgotten, I was talking about topics
different from diving as a description of why I claim to be good at learning.
True, overall you probably do know more about diving than myself, because I
have a very specialized knowledge and it is excellent for the diving that I
like to do. For that diving, most of what you know is irrelevnt
I do a couple of kinds of diving and classify it in two ways. Walk in the park
and a walk on the wild side.
Walk in the park dives are Caribbean and Hawaii diving, as well as say photo
diving at the inner islands. These dives do not present any more challenge to
me than a comfortable walk in the park. They are not demanding as far as gear,
deco or even any real diving or swimming skill.
As for on the wild side, the kind of diving I like most is diving that is
exciting. That includes bug hunting and rough water diving.
I have been diving for a long time and know the challenges of my diving.
Deco is not on that list. The things that are important are swimming skills
and how to cover and examine reef terrain faster, as well as how to handle
rocks, currents and waves. My swimming methods with brachiation techniques,
are superior to any simple swimming method. While there are better lobster
hunters than me, but I doubt very much that you are one of them. Since
hunting (and photography) is far more effective solo, I really doubt that
DIR, as you preach it, is going to help me much there. Maybe adapted, but
not your way.
Currents, waves and rocks are only learned by practice and experience. Few
people have more practice or experience than me. It seems likely that I am the
only person who has swam Steamers Lane when it is raging. If not the only, one of
a very few. I like swimming into the shallowest water I can get to at Nic to
look for bugs. I love the exhileration of diving in rough water when huge
swell are passing over. There is nothing like swimming through the length of the
Boilers. I like diving the San Mateo Coast, a place most people are just steered
away from due to nasty conditions. I have enough rough water skill to have
regularly skin and scuba dived along the north coast in spring and in other
rough conditions.
I just took the only vacation I plan every year. It was to go dive the North
Coast. I could go elsewhere, but it is the place where I like the diving the
Seriously Michael, do you think you have experience enough to teach me about
the diving I like most?
Enjoy the diving, seahunt
PS. And don't give me any BS about a long post. Yours was no single paragraph.
Just answer the very last question if that is all you have time for.
PPS. Just to give you a clue, I'll post something from my site at the top of
the board.

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