Re: You don't have an ax to grind do you?


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Posted by Jeff in landlocked #$%^*@ Arizona on May 03, 2004 at 08:02:28:

In Reply to: Re: You don't have an ax to grind do you? posted by Gosford on May 02, 2004 at 23:10:25:

Gos, you said "Diving is a dangerous activity - it is literally life & death (despite what PADI says) everytime you place that 2nd stage mouthpiece between your lips. When diving from a boat, a passenger must be able to depend on the "professional" who runs that vessel, not a weekend warrior with the letters DM attached to his signature"

It seems to me you have sort of mixed up two things here: one, the diver takes responsibility for his life, & two, the diver relies on the "professional" (thereby, you suggest the diver no longer has responsibility).

With all due respect:
I see this as part of the problem - you suggest that it is the captain alone who must take the blame; yet you just split the blame in two!!

I'm a new diver; I have a total of 60 dives; 40 of those in California; all since 2000; average of 15 each year.

The last trip I made, the boat planned on Cortes Banks - I had signed up with a shop to go there, and to take the Nitrox class.

I told the shop in no uncertain terms I was
"anxious" about going to a place with such a reputation. The dive shop owner assured me that he would assign me one of his own divers as buddy (since I made the trip from Arizona alone...); AND that if conditions were such that need be, we would not dive. Yes, I relied upon the shop owner, then relied upon the diver he assigned as my buddy (I don't recall the title of that person, DM, Instructor, ? ? ?) But, ultimately, I was the one who decided to go along!

I understand the "captain of the ship" theory, the captain is ultimtately responsible for his passengers (ultimately is the key word, I believe, in the courts);

There is debate in my field - I'm a nurse, and work in surgery: it used to be if surgeon said keep working, but anesthesia said stop - Anesthesia was the "captain of the ship." There are others who say surgeon is captain. The terms refer to question "who is ultimately responsible for that diver's/patient's life?" But in healthcare, & particularly surgery, Many times, it's not an "elective" situation; you as patient submit to decision of captain, whether emergent or not.

Conversely, in diving, you NEVER make an emergency dive; it is always elective.

Why do you think healthcare is so expensive? In a Very Large Part, Because the consumer can't take responsibility for HIS decision to have that risky ELECTIVE procedure done - when "odds are" the result of surgery is paralysis, or disfigurement, or whatever, "we" have forced healthcare to pay - but it was still the patient's/diver's choice! Of course you just assume the team is qualified to put you under the cold hard steel....

Let's just tap into that never ending source of money. . . . . so we can get rich, so we can avoid responsibility, so (sorry, I'm on a roll now :)

We haven't solved it in surgery: there are checks and double & triple checks of patients' names, of wristbands; now we have "time out" to cause the entire team to pause & agree (immediately prior to cutting) that "yes this is joe blow, & yes, we're replacing his left/right knee"

Even after that's done, there are still mistakes.

How do we fix it? Informed Surgical consents are even being found to be "useless" in courts.

Don't go for elective surgery until you're ready to accept the results! Surgery too is a scary undertaking - YOU make the choice! So, research your heart out, & still know that YOU made the decision to go....

Unfortunately, the buddies were pretty worthless, the DM screwed up his log, the captain apparently relied on the DM for a correct count.

Like all others, I'm glad the diver is safe. But.... it was his choice.


BTW, I'd go with Captain Ray, I don't see any of this as "his fault."



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