mike, either i'm confused, or you're confused...

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Posted by kelphead on August 09, 2000 at 11:44:55:

In Reply to: Re: Suggesting precautions posted by MHK on August 09, 2000 at 10:10:17:

and i quote you from http://diver.net/bbs/messages/2394.shtml :

"It is therefore incumbant upon the boats/shops that will benefit from this wreck to resist temptation, restrict
access and turn a negative into a positive.

I suggest that rather than view this wreck as an * everybody can dive it wreck*, that they promote this as a wreck that after
appropriate training is a wreck that you can build up too..

Nitrox should be used, lines should be used, NO solo diving should be allowed, advanced or overhead certifications should be
required and the less is more mentality should be adopted. If that means that they need to charge more and be more selective in
there approach so be it. It does not mean they should charge more and take any Tom, Dick or Harry with a C-card...

Without a proper mind set they[other divers] should stay off the wreck...

But as a permanent practice respecting the Yukon I still have some
reservations. I would prefer to see the bar get raised in terms of access and not helping otherwise unqualified divers gain access
to a situation that they should not attempt."

then in http://diver.net/bbs/messages/2404.shtml :

"I stand by my believes and make note I said they *should* run lines, use Nitrox, buddies etc. Should means that this is my

then again in http://diver.net/bbs/messages/2405.shtml :

"I disagree with the notion that everyone should decide for themseves how far they should penetrate. The problem with that
notion is that it may be too late to make that decision once you get disoriented."

mike, i don't want to play antagonist to you here, but
it's clear that your posts keep changing in verbage
and it seems as if you are waffling. so...:

before i attempt to reinterpret your quotes, let's
look at what you wrote. here is a list of words
you chose to use:

**restrict access
**appropriate training
**should be used
**advanced or overhead certifications should be required
**the less is more mentality should be adopted
**proper mind set
**should stay off the wreck
**not helping otherwise unqualified divers gain access

**first of all, you mentioned in one post that
you would like to see certain certifications and training
as a prerequisite to diving the 'yukon'. a prerequisite
is NOT, i repeat NOT, a suggestion. when i was taking
my bio courses in college, i had to meet certain prerequisites,
but this was not a suggestion for me to take certain
courses--it was a downright requirement. hey, you
even used that same word yourself--'required'--in the above

= : )

again, do you mean to 'suggest' or do you to mean 'require'?

**you talk about ensuring that certain divers do not gain
"access" to the wreck at all, until they have the right
mindset and proper certifications. you talk about
NOT leaving it up to the individual diver to decide
for him/herself whether or not to penetrate. in other
words, you don't trust divers to make their own
judgement and instead you would like to keep such
POTENTIAL statistics off the 'yukon' lest the govt
come in and spoil your personal diving fun.

am i accurate thus far, or am i still missing your

let's say i want to dive the 'yukon'(and actually have already
been invited to w/others) but i am not 'oe' trained,
but that's ok b/c i have already made up my own
decision NOT to penetrate this wreck--would you
let me dive off your boat if you were dm'ing???
you may make some suggestions to me to ensure my
own safety, which i would of course, undoubtedly
appreciate, but suggestions do not substitute
for certified wreck penetration training. but will i still be able
to dive the exterior of the 'yukon' w/a buddy and
even on nitrox but w/o reels, and would you trust me
if i told you i had no intention of entering the
hulk of barren metal???

while we're at it, what about oil rig dives--would
you want the industry to self regulate oil rig
dives as well? we have already had tragic fatalities
off those locales.

i think what others are clearly saying is that
they have the right to dive this wreck and not
penetrate it and that no one else should make
that decision for them. worrying about that one
ignoramus who MIGHT, PER CHANCE change his mind
at depth and enter the wreck does not weigh too
heavily on the minds of those who you keep calling

and on top of all that, divers will STILL die after
being "properly" trained, as has been witnessed in
similar scenarios.

by the way, you told slang in another post that
you were not advocating that only 'dir' divers
dive this wreck exclusively; but all of your
suggestions mentioned above (and knowing you, even your philosophy)
are indeed 'dir'--now, who are we kidding here...?

= : )

of course you advocate that those w/the proper "mindset"
be those trained in 'dir' values! so, i 'should' be
'dir' trained to dive the 'yukon' according to both
your words and logic.

= : )

THAT'S what people are "resistant" to--not the helpful
and life saving suggestions, but the attitude of
"requirement" by a 'dir' advocate.

i hope this post clarifies issues even further
(i can only hope).

i'm done...happy and safe diving to all of us.


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