Posted by MHK on April 16, 2001 at 12:22:16:
In Reply to: Re: More discouraging news about helium. posted by Steve on April 16, 2001 at 11:57:16:
Steve wrote:
I'll bet your recommendations aren't that far off from Karl's,
ARRRGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!
I'll bet my recomendations are a mile away from Karls..
If you followed the threads on the tech list and if you followed his and Terrance's comments at DEMA you'll see we are nowhere near each other. The rationale behind a POTENTIAL DCS hit if you ascend at depth pales in comparission to the dangerousness of his advocations..
First and foremost this is one of the things that bugs me about PADI's plunge into the tech diving world.. Tech diving isn't for everyone and shouldn't be promoted to the masses and if a diver can't hold a stop than they have ABSOLUTELY no business getting into tech diving. Period, end of sentance. But PADI would never dream of advancing that theory.. It can't be said enough that Tech diving isn't for everyone and if you can't hold a stop than don't get into deco..
Furthermore, per Terrance and Karl at DEMA the thinking is that if a diver is required to shoot a bag he may get stuck and then could rapidly ascend, and as such using He that diver is uptaking quicker than an air..
That's solving a stupid ridiculous issue with yet another stupid and ridiculous solution.. If a diver doesn't know how to shoot a bag than teach them at 40' until they are proficient, don't use a stupid gas and an illogical approach to solve a problem that should never exsist in the first place..
PADI is now advoacting taking diver's to 165' and putting them on air. Inconsistency #1, since forever they have advocated 130' as the maximum recomendation. Inconsistency # 2 only a few short years ago PADI was leading the anti- Nitrox crusade, but now they are advocating up to 80% nitrox to deco. Anyone that knows anything at all about deco theory knows that 80% is a riduclously stupid gas to off gas from, but yet PADI recommends it, why do they do that????
It's because students have problems holding a 20' stop ( if they were using pure 02 that's the MOD) so PADI offers up a less than optimal gas to compensate for a lack of skill. You loose all the 02 window benefits just because you can't hold a 20' stop.. If that's the case than the diver has ABSOLUTLEY NO BUSINESS doing deco diving.. Teach them the skills necessary to dive, don't alter gases to compensate for poor skills..
If someone can't hold a 20' stop they shouldn't be doing technical diving..
To teach deep air instead of trimix because a diver may ascend to rapidly is the dumbest thing I have ever heard coming out of PADI, and believe me that is saying a lot...
Let's review at 165' doing a properly planned dive the chances of having to shoot a lift bag are negligent at best, then add to that variable that to the extent that you should shoot a bag ( most trained diver's know never shoot the bag from depth) and as such you should get to about 100' ( I generally use 70' post gas switch) and any effect of narcosis in this scenario should be adequately reduced and you should be able to shoot the bag efficently. If a diver can't than they should never have gotten out of the class..
So Karl is advocating deep air diving to solve a problem that doesn't need to be solved.. And by doing so he is putting diver's at an unacceptably high risk of narcosis, he is abandoning everything PADI has argued in favor of for the last 30 years and is providing poor deco gas choices all to solve for something that doesn't exsist and all too do something the hard way when it can be done just as easily on mix...
Teaching deep air diving is a lot like running a driver's education program teaching people how to drive after the 1st or 2nd or 3rd martini, it can't be done safely despite any convoluted logic PADI or IANTD is selling...
The question isn't ARE you narced, it is HOW narced are you???? By adding He to the mix you aren't narced so until PADI answers that question they should abandon their efforts...
All the people that are jumping to PADI's defense never seem to answer the inconsistencies within PADI's positions but yet don't believe in a year or so they'll be right there telling you that deep air is dangerous so now take the trimix class we are selling....
The only reason PADI didn't go straight through trimix this time around is because they didn't get the insurance squared away in time...
It's all a shame and anyone that knows anything about deco sees right through PADI's shame...
So please don't ever say again that PADI's ( Karl's) way isn't too far off from mine because they are light years away...
Later