Posted by kelphead on July 06, 2001 at 22:01:18:
In Reply to: Kelphead, how extensively have you travelled the planet? posted by mike on July 06, 2001 at 00:25:00:
i don't take tours or travel on tour busses (yuck!!!!!).
and i've decided to never take a cruise ship vacation.
i know about the neighborhoods you're talking about,
i have relatives that live in alexandria, egypt.
as for a country dictating how many children to
have, let's see how that would ever fly in
this society, if we ever were to get that
overpopulated. until an action is accepted
for oneself first, one can't agree upon its
imposition on others. it has created a new
problem: female infanticide--why didn't you discuss
this resultant problem? is female infanticide
a good thing, then, in your eyes? is it the lesser
of two evils in your view? should the chinese
be congratulated for killing their female
infants? as a woman, i certainly don't agree w/that.
you failed to note in my post that i support the
u.n. sex ed campaign that ENCOURAGES the use
of birth control--if you have a beef, take it up w/the u.s. govt
which refused to pay their u.n. fees b/c they feared
that u.s. $$ would be used in u.n. abortion campaigns.
according to a 'newsweek' article put out earlier
this year (i can't remember the issue date now)
the u.s., if i remember correctly, is predicted
to be the 10th most populated country w/in the
next couple of decades.
the two countries which top the charts now are
china and india. the majority of the other
countries you talk about (including cuba) are not contributors
to overpopulation, at least not that i'm aware
of. which makes you prove my point: it's the
mishandling of the ecosystem that is the root
cause, everything else flows from that.
((i'm curious about your colombia reference:
i'll ask my colombian co-worker about the
overpopulation issue in her country, since
that is the context you are discussing here.
while i'm at it, i'll also ask my brazilian
re:the issue of the 'suv', they are quite
popular in the southern hemisphere as well as
in the crowded, narrow streets of egypt. mcdonalds
is very popular arond the globe (can't seem to
get away from it), and therein lies part of the
issue: all these other people want to have
the same western lifestyle which is a major
contributor to the suffocation of our planet.
if just soln's were implemented to allow
people around the globe to feed themselves,
and not be so dependent upon other nations,
then they would be in a better position to
care for their own, understand why and realize
how to control their population growth, and
protect the natural resources. it's certainly
not fair or right to ask someone to stay
impoverished while the rest of us can
afford to enjoy that person's natural resources.
you can't keep other people down while asking
them to care for our vacation spots.
as for dictators, EXCELLENT POINT!!!! if the
u.s. and other countries would only learn to
STOP supporting them and allow indigenous
populations to actually pick and choose their
own rulers in a democratic society, we would
have fewer people resenting the u.s. and the
rest of the world would be in a better state
to hold their own accountable--and perhaps
we wouldn't be buying--i mean aiding other
countries using our tax $$.
mike, i never said overpopulation wasn't a
problem, but i do resent that those who
are relatively well off don't appreciate the more
underlying issues that exist. in a way,
it's a simple problem that gets complicated
very quickly. perhaps we will never see
it from the same perspective.
on the other hand, there is still continuing
controversy over what phenomena are man-made
and how much of it is actually due to natural
environmental changes that cycle. for example,
droughts have come and gone throughout the
history of our planet, even during times of
low human populations. i think it's obvious
that we exacerbate the effects of these
natural phenomena w/our modern industry, but i
strongly believe the issue is one that is more
about being wasteful/destructive than having too many babies.
and if you are still not convinced, how about
this for a prediction to make you happy:
in the not so distant future, you and johnb
(and presumably others) will have your wish
come true when a good portion of this planet's
population will die in a short amount of time
from infectious diseases (and i don't mean just
from aids either).
i could be very very very wrong, but right now
i have no doubt that disease will keep the human
population in check.
as grad students are taught in their 1st year:
if it wasn't for the simple pathogen, humans
would completely dominate the planet.
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