i didn't want to comment until i understood...

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Posted by kelphead on July 05, 2001 at 21:30:16:

In Reply to: Now you're gonna make me explain huh... OK here ya go posted by JohnB on July 04, 2001 at 00:31:15:

exactly where you were coming from.

there is a huuuuge misconception that the overpopultion
of the planet is the major culprit in diminishing

although there are potential problems w/overpopultion,
the real culprit is not how many babies exist,
but who the hell is using up the planet's resources
and who is polluting the water, air, and ground.

some points to ponder:

**it takes one U.S. baby to use up the same
amount of resources as 6 indian sub-continent

**the u.s. disproportionately pollutes our planet
more than other countries (i don't remember the
exact #, but if i remember correctly it's something
like 25-30% of the world's pollution comes from
one country, the u.s.)

**we hurt "ma earth" by using up resources and
polluting the planet

**it was president bush who decided not to sign
the kyoto agreement, to the ire of the ENTIRE world

**the u.s., western european countries, and the former
soviet union produced large quantities of radioactive
materials; here in the u.s. we have buried tons
upon tons of radioactive material, only for it
to one day, inevitably, seep into our drinking waters
(can't blame overpopulation for that)

**asian countries are known for their insatiable
seafood appetite, however, european fishing boats
which have DEVASTATED their northern sea fisheries
for an equally insatiable european palate, are currently
illegally fishing off the west african coast--in
the process, they are stealing other/foreign people's
food supply as well as actually killing local
west african fisherman as they plow into them in
the middle of darkness so as not to have their
illegal fishing practices be detected by day by local
authorities (it's getting more and more dangerous
for west african fishermen to harvest their
natural resources via their old fashioned, and
more environmentally friendly way)

**the imf and world bank, supported by the
wealthy nations of the 'west' are doling out
loans upon loans, the interest of which is
literally choking the so-called 3rd world
countries. additionally, for every 1$ the u.s. lends
to africa in monetary aid, africa is
required to pay back 9$ in interest. there
is a big current undertaking to cancel out
these types of debts by "3rd world countries"
to "1st world countries": colonialism never
ended, it just insidiously changed forms...


it's not the number of babies that is the entire
issue, or even the underlying issue when it comes
to resource depletion and pollution. it boils down to
the never ending issue of greed and selfishness,
and the inevitable consequence of poverty and
the desparate need for those impoverished
to lift themselves out by any means necessary and

the powerful nations at the top got there through the
industrial revolution--the era that ushered in
gross environmental pollution. now, however, as other countries
look to these same wealthy powers as models to lift themselves
out of poverty and war, they are told by the same
powers that, noooo, you can't get there the same
way we did, you will pollute the earth and cause
mother earth more problems.

the vast majority of peasants around the world
end up doing things like either burning down rainforests
to clear for their local ranchers/farmers and/or
having several children per family for the extra hands
they need for labor, especially since many of them
still die from preventable diseases from which we in the
'west' have cured ourselves. they rely on such 'primitive'
techniques that we in the 'west' have 'civilized'
ourselves from just to survive on a day to day
basis. why? b/c they aren't offered a lot of
soln's. and contrary to what many in the 'west'
may think, these people don't want to live in
such humiliating conditions, they want education
(but when they fight for it, they get brutally
repressed), they want cleaner and better lives,
in many cases, they want to be like the 'west'
and they want to have exactly what u.s. citizens
have. but they aren't able to get out of their
situations due to economics.

a sidenote: it was the 'monsanto' biotech company
that came up w/a BRILLIANT product dubbed the
'terminator' seed: they engineered a seed that
they would sell exclusively to '3rd world' farmers and
the specialty of this seed was to provide for one
season of crops and that's it. the seed would
'terminate' and not produce any progeny seeds.
the idea would be to get these non-u.s. farmers
dependent upon one company to provide them w/this
seed every single year. what kinds of implications
would this seed have on the environment?
and how long would this one u.s. company, which
has a patent on this seed, be able to keep entire
nations on their knees, dictating what products
these farmers should put into their soil...?...no,
the birth of billions of little babies can't be
blamed for this outrage.

remember, it's the u.s., not the '3rd world', that
has produced the "evil s.u.v." which is inefficient
and pollutes greatly.

yes, you're right, there is much more to say on this
topic, and i guess this is enough for now, but
it just seems to me, john, by your posted comments
that you really don't have a clue what the underlying
issues are when it comes to environmental issues.
it seems to me, though you can correct me if i'm
wrong, you just want to jump on the band wagon
and blame others who don't happen to have been
as blessed as you have been (or are even the same
skin color as you???).

re:the # of children who are born into this world,
you seem to have overlooked the fact that china
implemented its 'one child law' decades ago (though
it only apparently applies to the han chinese).
funny, this one child law that is, presumably by your logic,
a good idea is actually immoral and repugnant:
having a govt dictate how many children a couple
can have. do you have any clue what the result of
this law has been?? female infanticide.

also, just to let you know, another country that
is well known for its population growth, india,
has abortion clinics on practically every street
corner in many cities--and they are used non-stop.

however, it comes back to who is polluting our
mother earth and who is gobbling up all the resources.
it aint all those babies whom you are quick to blame.

one of the u.n.'s most successful campaigns has
indeed been the family planning/contraception
education campaign. as long as they continue
to get funded, the program will continue to
educate billions of men and women worldwide.
they found out early on that animated skits seem
to get the message across much more effectively
than if real live humans lectured them on the

condoms are being used by more people around
the '3rd world' than ever before, and they will
continue to as long as u.n. workers can discuss
'taboo' sexual issues in a community--and it's
getting better and better.

if you still disagree, then i guess we agree
to disagree re:the causes of "ma earth's" problems.

= : )


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